We've got meeting on the 8th of August!
Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! We've got a meeting on the 8th! During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure! Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
My personal favorite intro video (since basically all of this is still true in modern linux): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0 On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 9:51 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea!
We've got a meeting on the 8th!
During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads.
I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah?
I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure!
Thanks, Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXXM...
"Kevin" == Kevin Harrington via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
My personal favorite intro video (since basically all of this is still true in modern linux): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
Heh, it's only 42 years old, but it's still an interesting thing to watch. But it does miss the point today in alot of ways. I had a discussion with a person last thursday who also complained about us not being quite as good about getting back to basics with Linux and how to install and use it. So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along with some of the basic apps. - web browser - inkscape - gimp - libre office Basic productivity which most people would want to use.
On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 9:51 AM Tim Keller via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea!
We've got a meeting on the 8th!
During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads.
I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah?
I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure!
Thanks, Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXXM...
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John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along with some of the basic apps.
- web browser - inkscape - gimp - libre office
Basic productivity which most people would want to use.
I guess what counts as productivity depends upon what you want to produce. I need a web browser (Firefox) to learn about stuff and get it. Is there any reason to prefer one over another? I didn't know what inkscape is. Googled it (with browser). It looks like it might be fun to play with, but is it "productivity"? I have used gimp years ago, mostly to make party invitations with logo and map. I might have used inkscape if I knew about it at the time. Office, I have heard, can read Microsoft Office documents, which is something I refuse to do. Years ago I filtered out a lot of stupid spam by setting the SMTP server to reject anything with an attached MS-Word file. I think it still does that, but nobody sends them anymore. I'm hoping it follows Adobe shockwave flash web pages into oblivion. Besides the browser, my "productivity apps" are: -- emacs. There may be other ASCII editors, but how can one produce _anything_ without _some_ editor? -- gcc. I am interested in the Scheme programming language, but I need a C compiler (and make) to make the Scheme interpreter, and everything else. -- evince. A *.pdf reader. If I download a journal article, it's a PDF. -- TeX, LaTeX. To make my own article.pdf. -- Postfix, Apache. That's the way I roll. Others might think Facebook is a good substitute. Phltt! This conversation started with a link to a Video. How do you make a video? You get the raw material from a video camera/"phone", but what software should I use to cut and paste, maybe enlarge and crop? -- Keith
If you are looking for more (popular) productivity, try Blender for video editing. I only watch some of the first part of the video and I remember it being pretty good. Blender for complete beginners (video editing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7YPabqeDk (Part 1 of 4) Video recording - OBS On 7/31/2024 3:12 PM, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote:
John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along with some of the basic apps.
- web browser - inkscape - gimp - libre office
Basic productivity which most people would want to use. I guess what counts as productivity depends upon what you want to produce.
I need a web browser (Firefox) to learn about stuff and get it. Is there any reason to prefer one over another?
I didn't know what inkscape is. Googled it (with browser). It looks like it might be fun to play with, but is it "productivity"?
I have used gimp years ago, mostly to make party invitations with logo and map. I might have used inkscape if I knew about it at the time.
Office, I have heard, can read Microsoft Office documents, which is something I refuse to do. Years ago I filtered out a lot of stupid spam by setting the SMTP server to reject anything with an attached MS-Word file. I think it still does that, but nobody sends them anymore. I'm hoping it follows Adobe shockwave flash web pages into oblivion.
Besides the browser, my "productivity apps" are:
-- emacs. There may be other ASCII editors, but how can one produce _anything_ without _some_ editor?
-- gcc. I am interested in the Scheme programming language, but I need a C compiler (and make) to make the Scheme interpreter, and everything else.
-- evince. A *.pdf reader. If I download a journal article, it's a PDF.
-- TeX, LaTeX. To make my own article.pdf.
-- Postfix, Apache. That's the way I roll. Others might think Facebook is a good substitute. Phltt!
This conversation started with a link to a Video. How do you make a video? You get the raw material from a video camera/"phone", but what software should I use to cut and paste, maybe enlarge and crop?
-- Keith
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Perhaps we can contrast the fundamentals of a Linux system with all of the new technologies becoming integral to a modern distribution? I've created a survey to get some insight on these changes in the Linux desktop and how quickly they're being adopted. For example: * more than half of respondents said they run Linux without having to multi-boot * nearly 2 out of 3 of respondents said they use a Wayland desktop session only, while 1 out of 6 said they run X.org only * 2 out of 5 respondents said they install most/all of their applications as flatpaks, while almost none of them install snaps at all You can read the survey results here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_GmX0flabMP4xPwBXcGTU6QtAmpdRJQbCUU18QZSdHc... You can also take the survey here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScKuxJKUQ-uzc-I2Y8Z6n0vZmcsFg_XQzxf... Note: Google email addresses are required to take the survey because I want people to be able to edit their responses and not send duplicate responses. - Josh On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 9:51 AM Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
If you are looking for more (popular) productivity, try Blender for video editing.
I only watch some of the first part of the video and I remember it being pretty good.
Blender for complete beginners (video editing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh7YPabqeDk (Part 1 of 4)
Video recording - OBS
On 7/31/2024 3:12 PM, Keith Wright via WLUG wrote:
John Stoffel via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
So it might be a really good thing for us to show some of this, along with some of the basic apps.
- web browser - inkscape - gimp - libre office
Basic productivity which most people would want to use. I guess what counts as productivity depends upon what you want to produce.
I need a web browser (Firefox) to learn about stuff and get it. Is there any reason to prefer one over another?
I didn't know what inkscape is. Googled it (with browser). It looks like it might be fun to play with, but is it "productivity"?
I have used gimp years ago, mostly to make party invitations with logo and map. I might have used inkscape if I knew about it at the time.
Office, I have heard, can read Microsoft Office documents, which is something I refuse to do. Years ago I filtered out a lot of stupid spam by setting the SMTP server to reject anything with an attached MS-Word file. I think it still does that, but nobody sends them anymore. I'm hoping it follows Adobe shockwave flash web pages into oblivion.
Besides the browser, my "productivity apps" are:
-- emacs. There may be other ASCII editors, but how can one produce _anything_ without _some_ editor?
-- gcc. I am interested in the Scheme programming language, but I need a C compiler (and make) to make the Scheme interpreter, and everything else.
-- evince. A *.pdf reader. If I download a journal article, it's a PDF.
-- TeX, LaTeX. To make my own article.pdf.
-- Postfix, Apache. That's the way I roll. Others might think Facebook is a good substitute. Phltt!
This conversation started with a link to a Video. How do you make a video? You get the raw material from a video camera/"phone", but what software should I use to cut and paste, maybe enlarge and crop?
-- Keith
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I am looking for a cheap solution for the following: 1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and email addre0ss. 2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server. 3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to get this working as a 'ground up' project. 4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible. How would you approach this? At a very high level, I am considering: 1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232. 2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they have an image that is already what I want. Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at the meeting next Thursday.
Kevin, It's been our experience that hosting your own email server on a consumer ISP is a nightmare. Because of the spam and bots many companies (mine included) simply drop mail from anything that remotely resolves to a consumer ISP IP. There are solutions around this. Amazon has a service (SES) that can front your mail server and will host your MX records. You'll still need to handle a tremendous amount of spam filtering, etc. When you say FTP server I presume you mean SFTP? As for a NAS, you might be interested in something like FreeNAS Scale. It's linux based, it'll run on *anything. *It handles the whole ZFS setup and configuration of services, etc. It also very clearly supports docker and has a nice interface for installing applications. So you can very easily install something like Min.io and now your NAS has S3 bucket capabilities. For security, you might want to think about setting up something like tailscale so you won't have to knock (too many) holes in your firewall to handle the incoming traffic devices and the NAS will be on a private WAN. Tim. On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 4:09 PM Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
I am looking for a cheap solution for the following:
1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and email addre0ss.
2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server.
3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to get this working as a 'ground up'
project.
4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible.
How would you approach this?
At a very high level, I am considering:
1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232.
2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they have an image that is already what I want.
Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at the meeting next Thursday.
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-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
"Kevin" == Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> writes:
I am looking for a cheap solution for the following: 1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and email addre0ss.
2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server.
Please no! Setup 'sftp' instead. This does require two IPs on the system since sftp (ftp over ssh) will take up one port because ideally you'd setup virtual users who can't actually login to the system...
3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to get this working as a 'ground up' project.
I'd think about Ansible, which lets you do repeatable test builds at home. The trick, of course, is getting your email setup working that way. There's a bunch of parts: postfix for SMTP incoming/outgoing dovecot for IMAP postscreen rspamd - spam filtering dkim - for singing your outgoing emails nginx - for hosting various files for google and others to check for you being who you say you are. Fun fun. And a bunch of other stuff. I'd actually suggest maybe you look at https://mailinabox.email/ do you your setup. I think if I had to do it again, i'd go that route. The most important part though, and the most annoying, if getting your VPS and making sure it's not in a spam block, or likely to get added into one. Its... painful. I've been running stoffel.org for 20+ years now for email and it's gotten harder and harder. Nowdays you need to have SPF keys setup in DNS, DKIM keys for signing emails, you want to make sure you don't relay anything any more, because that will get you banned. Which reminds me I need to stop relaying too. Sigh...
4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible.
Very true, a mail server is pretty low bandwidth.
How would you approach this?
At a very high level, I am considering:
1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232.
If you're thinking of running this at home on your home internet then you're in for probably a rude surprise. Most big mail providers tend to block home IP blocks and not accept email because the volume of spam from them is so high. I'm on a Linode droplet right now, but thinking of moving to something else.
2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they have an image that is already what I want.
Again, those AWS IP blocks tend to get blocked and dropped because of the spam levels.
Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at the meeting next Thursday.
Happy to chat then. I'd suggest you going the postfix.org mailing list and look through the archives. If you do go with a VPS, you'll really want something with 2gb of RAM or more, because rspamd is a hog. Postfix and dovecot are simple. It's the getting others to accept your email that sucks. John
Kevin, You might want to take a look at the Freedombox.org software: https://freedombox.org Run your digital services from your home
FreedomBox is a private server for non-experts: it lets you install and configure server applications with only a few clicks. It runs on cheap hardware of your choice, uses your internet connection and power, and is under your control.
It has a front panel and was designed for people who are running a home server and are not super-admins, although I do not think that it is "Mom&Pop(TM)" ready either. There is a lot of functionality there.....you do not have to set up everything all at once. 99% of the software has been incorporated into Debian 11 and Debian 12, and therefore runs on a variety of hardware platforms, everything from an old laptop to a Raspberry Pi 5 (which can go up to 8 GB of RAM for 80 USD). The RPi 5 has a PCI-e bus built in and there are "Hats" that allow you to add two M.2 solid state memory cards to set up RAID. The 1 Gbps ethernet connection would probably give you all the throughput you need. md On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 4:10 PM Kevin Stratton via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
I am looking for a cheap solution for the following:
1) Email server/redireector. I want to have a full custom domain and email addre0ss.
2) FTP server on the same domain as the email server.
3) GUI setup preferred, I do not want to invest the time (right now) to get this working as a 'ground up'
project.
4) Total bandwidth needs should be negligible.
How would you approach this?
At a very high level, I am considering:
1) Dedicating a DDR3 (RAM) era Intel I3 P.C. (sorry, I don not know the generation) and installing NAS software with the appropriate docker plugins, if they exist. I do not know if this is even reasonable. Suggestions are appreciated. I am using a home ISP account. I am aware of DynDNS type services to get around the lack of a static IP. I do not currently plan on using this device as an actual NAS due to security concerns. If necessary, I will use sneaker-net to transfer data, although I am thinking about ssh or even RS232.
2) Renting out space on a service like Amazon Web services. Maybe they have an image that is already what I want.
Any ideas/thoughts/experiences would be appreciated. I hope to be at the meeting next Thursday.
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Hi Tim, Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG. Ron On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote:
Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea!
We've got a meeting on the 8th!
During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads.
I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah?
I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure!
Thanks, Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
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We haven't run an "Install-fest" in years, maybe plan a regular install Linux party? On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:17 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
Hi Tim,
Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG.
Ron On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote:
Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea!
We've got a meeting on the 8th!
During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads.
I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah?
I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure!
Thanks, Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
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I learn just from being on this thread but knowing the why from an install party would be fantastic. On Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 09:31:01 AM EDT, Kevin Harrington via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote: We haven't run an "Install-fest" in years, maybe plan a regular install Linux party? On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:17 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote: Hi Tim, Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG. Ron On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote: Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea! We've got a meeting on the 8th! During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads. I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah? I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure! Thanks, Tim. -- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers". _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/ACOXXM... _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/6IRRMB... _______________________________________________ WLUG mailing list -- wlug@lists.wlug.org To unsubscribe send an email to wlug-leave@lists.wlug.org Create Account: https://wlug.mailman3.com/accounts/signup/ Change Settings: https://wlug.mailman3.com/postorius/lists/wlug.lists.wlug.org/ Web Forum/Archive: https://wlug.mailman3.com/hyperkitty/list/wlug@lists.wlug.org/message/NTWLYB...
Pulls out a walker.. Why, when I was just a wee linux lad, installing linux was an huge pain in the ass.. not like these days when you can just boot from an ISO.. from a usb stick.. you needed three floppies and a zip drive!! Then you'd accidentally "dd" your hardrive (hd0) trying to create a floppy image so you could install the ppp program!! These days installing linux is far easier than it ever was, but there's still interesting corner cases and odd devices that getting linux installed on them can be tricky. Tim. On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 11:52 AM William Grenache via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
I learn just from being on this thread but knowing the *why *from an install party would be fantastic.
On Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 09:31:01 AM EDT, Kevin Harrington via WLUG < wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
We haven't run an "Install-fest" in years, maybe plan a regular install Linux party?
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 8:17 AM hammerron via WLUG <wlug@lists.wlug.org> wrote:
Hi Tim,
Sorry for the late reply. To comment about a "back to basics" meeting. I think that is a terrific idea. I would go further to say not just one, but from time to time having more of them again also, or maybe a small portion of some meetings. It might welcome in a wider range of members to WLUG.
Ron On 7/29/24 09:51, Tim Keller via WLUG wrote:
Hey Everybody! We've got a meeting and a topic idea!
We've got a meeting on the 8th!
During the last couple of meetings, we've had a couple of new users come by and it was clear to me that we were going into the higher level linux concepts, many of which were flying over their heads.
I was thinking it might be really good to have a back to basics wlug meeting, where we get in get into unix philosophy, what a distro is, what parts make up a distro, common things people deal with, etc. Yeah, nah?
I'm also trying to turn a page here and start the conversation about the meeting more than say.. 2 days before the meeting so the meetings can continue to have their ruckus nature, but actually have some bit of structure!
Thanks, Tim.
-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
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-- I am leery of the allegiances of any politician who refers to their constituents as "consumers".
participants (9)
-
hammerron -
John Stoffel -
Jon "maddog" Hall -
Joshua Stone -
Keith Wright -
Kevin Harrington -
Kevin Stratton -
Tim Keller -
William Grenache