Just wondering if there's a WLUG IRC channel or similar about? - Bob
On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 05:20:56PM -0500, Bob George wrote:
Just wondering if there's a WLUG IRC channel or similar about?
irc.freenode.net #wlug I discovered this about a year ago, and it was being (rarely) used by the Western Linux Users Group: http://www.westernlug.org There hasn't been any activity on the channel, and I have been its only joined member for many many months now. I say we start using it for ourselves :) Seriously, if there is enough interest I can ask these folks to give us control over the channel....
==> Regarding Re: [Wlug] WLUG IRC anywhere?; "Charles R. Anderson" <cra@WPI.EDU> adds: cra> On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 05:20:56PM -0500, Bob George wrote:
Just wondering if there's a WLUG IRC channel or similar about?
cra> irc.freenode.net
wlug
cra> I discovered this about a year ago, and it was being (rarely) used by cra> the Western Linux Users Group: cra> http://www.westernlug.org cra> There hasn't been any activity on the channel, and I have been its cra> only joined member for many many months now. I say we start using it Chuck, you sit on irc channels by yourself? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Or do you have bots to talk to? ;-P -phro
On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 05:50:18PM -0400, Jeff Moyer wrote:
Chuck, you sit on irc channels by yourself? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Or do you have bots to talk to?
Yeah there is this one called Eliza...you should talk to it sometime...
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:40:13 -0400 "Charles R. Anderson" <cra@WPI.EDU> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 05, 2004 at 05:50:18PM -0400, Jeff Moyer wrote:
Chuck, you sit on irc channels by yourself? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Or do you have bots to talk to?
Yeah there is this one called Eliza...you should talk to it sometime...
ayuh... Eliza... she's been my best friend since high school... <sniffle> she's the only one that /truly/ understands... :D -- William Smith wsmith@chezsmith.com Fall River, MA
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 17:50:18 -0400 Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@redhat.com> wrote:
cra> irc.freenode.net
wlug
cra> I discovered this about a year ago, and it was being (rarely) used by cra> the Western Linux Users Group:
...
cra> There hasn't been any activity on the channel, and I have been its cra> only joined member for many many months now. I say we start using it
Chuck, you sit on irc channels by yourself? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Or do you have bots to talk to?
<shrug> Chuck's right, though. I've popped in a couple times since he told us about this channel, and there is next to no traffic whatsoever. Apparently Chuck leaves his IRC client on to monitor traffic levels there, 'cause he wasn't even talking with me when i joined in. (no snide comments from the peanut gallery!! <g>) -- William Smith wsmith@chezsmith.com Fall River, MA
Bill Smith wrote:
[...] <shrug> Chuck's right, though. I've popped in a couple times since he told us about this channel, and there is next to no traffic whatsoever. Apparently Chuck leaves his IRC client on to monitor traffic levels there, 'cause he wasn't even talking with me when i joined in. (no snide comments from the peanut gallery!! <g>)
Hey, at least there's not some kid constantly griping that Windows was so much easier (what happened to the Phoenix LUG channel - now #plugaz). A lot of LUG channels are largely idle, but I tend to lurk and occasionally there are some gems worth waiting for. - Bob (bobstro)
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:43:57 -0400 Bob George <mailings02@ttlexceeded.com> wrote:
Hey, at least there's not some kid constantly griping that Windows was so much easier (what happened to the Phoenix LUG channel - now #plugaz).
I often find myself sighing at the "Windows is easier" crowd. i want to educate them to what is available to them, to show them that "easier" does not necessarily mean "best for the job". Easier might be just that (easy), but it sometimes means making the wrong choice. If a person wants to favor an operating system simply because it's "easy", then that person deserves all the resulting heartache s/he gets. often, the person looking for "easy" will think "ease of use" instead of "ease to get going without immediate worry"... If that became a major concern instead, I think we would see a decided shift towards unix variants. Sure, Win* might be easy to USE, but if you want it networked, there's a bit of know-how and effort involved to make it SECURE. (that could probably be said for any OS, but it is more true for Win* than for many others.)
A lot of LUG channels are largely idle, but I tend to lurk and occasionally there are some gems worth waiting for.
:) granted. can't argue that one. -- William Smith wsmith@chezsmith.com Fall River, MA
Having tried to fix many peoples Windows XP installs I find XP very unmanagable. The guts (generally what I need to fix) is so hidden from the user in an attempt to keep up the facade of 'ease of use' it's a PITA to get around just to fix a screwy network connection. How many windows users don't even know what a directory is? I don't call that ease of use, merely keeping them ignorant. It's a sad state of computer use:) On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:51:56 -0400 Bill Smith <wsmith@chezsmith.com> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:43:57 -0400 Bob George <mailings02@ttlexceeded.com> wrote:
Hey, at least there's not some kid constantly griping that Windows was so much easier (what happened to the Phoenix LUG channel - now #plugaz).
I often find myself sighing at the "Windows is easier" crowd. i want to educate them to what is available to them, to show them that "easier" does not necessarily mean "best for the job". Easier might be just that (easy), but it sometimes means making the wrong choice.
If a person wants to favor an operating system simply because it's "easy", then that person deserves all the resulting heartache s/he gets. often, the person looking for "easy" will think "ease of use" instead of "ease to get going without immediate worry"... If that became a major concern instead, I think we would see a decided shift towards unix variants. Sure, Win* might be easy to USE, but if you want it networked, there's a bit of know-how and effort involved to make it SECURE. (that could probably be said for any OS, but it is more true for Win* than for many others.)
A lot of LUG channels are largely idle, but I tend to lurk and occasionally there are some gems worth waiting for.
:) granted. can't argue that one.
--
William Smith wsmith@chezsmith.com Fall River, MA
Bill Smith wrote:
[...] I often find myself sighing at the "Windows is easier" crowd. i want to educate them to what is available to them, to show them that "easier" does not necessarily mean "best for the job". Easier might be just that (easy), but it sometimes means making the wrong choice.
For our poor little IRC channel, it was particularly bad. This kid had joined the LUG list, and offered to do all kinds of web development etc. with the hopes he'd get some free advertising for his "big business venture." No problem there, but he proceeded to rant on-list about wanting to use ASP etc., arguing against open-source content management tools as "boring." That carried over to the IRC channel, and he'd essentially scare off any potential Linux converts with his lousy attitude.
If a person wants to favor an operating system simply because it's "easy", then that person deserves all the resulting heartache s/he gets. often, the person looking for "easy" will think "ease of use" instead of "ease to get going without immediate worry"...
There was a great post a few years back (forgot which list) comparing web development using front page to the (original, good) Matrix movie precept. It got into the "warm, wet, comfortable goo" of FP, and how long and painful it was extricating himself and his code. Although it fit apple better in years previous, I think "Freedom From Choice" is what a lot of people want (with apologies to Devo).
If that became a major concern instead, I think we would see a decided shift towards unix variants. Sure, Win* might be easy to USE, but if you want it networked, there's a bit of know-how and effort involved to make it SECURE. (that could probably be said for any OS, but it is more true for Win* than for many others.)
We'd best watch it, or they'll start mandating the equivalent of seatbelt and helmet laws for computers. I agree that users should be responsible, but I don't want the government dictating how "safe" software should be developed. I like the idea of an INFORMED user base. - Bob
On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:59:32 -0400 Bob George <mailings02@ttlexceeded.com> wrote:
For our poor little IRC channel, it was particularly bad. This kid had joined the LUG list, and offered to do all kinds of web development etc. with the hopes he'd get some free advertising for his "big business venture." No problem there, but he proceeded to rant on-list about wanting to use ASP etc., arguing against open-source content management tools as "boring."
let's see if i got this right: a guy volunteered to design a website for a LUG and insisted on using M$-specific tools. ummm...
That carried over to the IRC channel, and he'd essentially scare off any potential Linux converts with his lousy attitude.
that's not Good.
We'd best watch it, or they'll start mandating the equivalent of seatbelt and helmet laws for computers. I agree that users should be responsible, but I don't want the government dictating how "safe" software should be developed. I like the idea of an INFORMED user base.
at the risk of sounding technocratic, i think a person should have some level of functionality before being allowed onto the 'Net. something BASIC (<ahem> pun intended), maybe a test of some sort... "What is the difference between a hard drive and a floppy drive? (holding up a 3.5" floppy) Which one is THIS?" <shrug> some days, i just want to pull out my Apple IIgs and stick to THAT. ...then i realize how slow it is, compared to my current system. :) -- William Smith wsmith@chezsmith.com Fall River, MA
Bill Smith wrote:
[...] let's see if i got this right: a guy volunteered to design a website for a LUG and insisted on using M$-specific tools. ummm...
Yes, it was very weird. Unfortunately, he was buddies with the guy who ran the server, and since it wasn't LUG "official" (sort of like WLUG's current) he couldn't be de-op'ed.
[...] at the risk of sounding technocratic, i think a person should have some level of functionality
I too advocate human functionality :)
before being allowed onto the 'Net. something BASIC (<ahem> pun intended),
Hmm... am I dating myself when I admit that I remember when computers actually ran BASIC?
maybe a test of some sort... "What is the difference between a hard drive and a floppy drive? (holding up a 3.5" floppy) Which one is THIS?"
Hold up a 5 1/4" floppy and watch 'em glaze over. :) I agree at a general level, but cringe when I think what our dear ol' government might consider "proper credentials." Visions of lobbyists and special interests sticking all sorts of propaganda in, politically correct, sensitive questions, and the like. "RAM" and "hard drive" deemed hostile, "RBLs" deemed discriminatory, "cache" deemed discriminatory to the financially challenged. I might fail whatever they manage to concoct. Then again, maybe I'm just too cynical. They've managed to institute a series of tests and checks to ensure that anybody taking to our roads is well-versed in the rules, and able to operate their vehicle properly, right?
<shrug> some days, i just want to pull out my Apple IIgs and stick to THAT. ...then i realize how slow it is, compared to my current system. :)
I do want to get my old Apple (the REAL apple, not that Mac impostor!) hooked up to my Linux box someday, maybe doing something "useful" like 'tail -f' on log files. I could still stand a game of Karateka once in a while. :) - Bob
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:14:44 -0400 Bob George <mailings02@ttlexceeded.com> wrote:
Yes, it was very weird. Unfortunately, he was buddies with the guy who ran the server, and since it wasn't LUG "official" (sort of like WLUG's current) he couldn't be de-op'ed.
<shaking head> there's more than one way to skin a cat.
before being allowed onto the 'Net. something BASIC (<ahem> pun intended),
Hmm... am I dating myself when I admit that I remember when computers actually ran BASIC?
<g> we can start a discussion of "i remember when..." statements, but i think it will quickly disintegrate into a pissing contest. ;)
maybe a test of some sort... "What is the difference between a hard drive and a floppy drive? (holding up a 3.5" floppy) Which one is THIS?"
Hold up a 5 1/4" floppy and watch 'em glaze over. :)
imagine the look when i show 'em one of my 8" floppies! :) "Huh? I didn't know they made 'em THAT big!" :D
I agree at a general level, but cringe when I think what our dear ol' government might consider "proper credentials." Visions of lobbyists and special interests sticking all sorts of propaganda in, politically correct, sensitive questions, and the like. "RAM" and "hard drive" deemed hostile, "RBLs" deemed discriminatory, "cache" deemed discriminatory to the financially challenged. I might fail whatever they manage to concoct.
i try not to put anything past the government, but i really doubt that they would be able to implement any sort of qualification list on computer users at this stage of the Game... they'd have to require the general populace to pass a test to buy a blender... (come to think of it, maybe that wouldn't be a /bad/ thing... <g>)
Then again, maybe I'm just too cynical. They've managed to institute a series of tests and checks to ensure that anybody taking to our roads is well-versed in the rules, and able to operate their vehicle properly, right?
it's been a while since you drove on Route 128 in rush hour, hasn't it? <gd&r>
<shrug> some days, i just want to pull out my Apple IIgs and stick to THAT. ...then i realize how slow it is, compared to my current system. :)
I do want to get my old Apple (the REAL apple, not that Mac impostor!) hooked up to my Linux box someday, maybe doing something "useful" like 'tail -f' on log files.
the easiest way i have found for that is to rig a serial connection to the Linux box (serial cable and a null modem) and use the Apple II as a dumb terminal. I've seen getty configurations for getting the Apple to play nice, and it worked like a champ about five years ago, when i played with it... other than that, there are ethernet cards one can buy for about $200 (!), but that's not happening in my house for a long while. i'd /love/ to have the space for GNO/ME, though... it's a unix-ish overlay for GS/OS. :D -- William Smith wsmith@chezsmith.com Fall River, MA
Hi (Can't resist my two bits worth! :-) )
Hey, at least there's not some kid constantly griping that Windows was so much easier
If it is so "easy", why is it that PC Magazine has been able to generate pages and pages of how to fix things in Windows, every issue for 10 to 15 years? :-) doug
participants (7)
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Bill Smith -
Bob George -
Charles R. Anderson -
doug waud -
Jeff Moyer -
Keith Wright -
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